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Skepquote of the day

Posted in Skepquote by Skepdude on March 9, 2009

Absolute faith corrupts as absolutely as absolute power.

Eric Hoffer

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  1. Russ said, on March 9, 2009 at 11:16 AM

    So I guess that people should stop believing in themselves so much.

  2. Skepdude said, on March 9, 2009 at 12:21 PM

    I guess one can believe in one’s self so long as one does not have “absolute faith” in one’s infallibility.

  3. Russ said, on March 9, 2009 at 1:04 PM

    How do know for sure that none are infallible if you yourself are fallible? How can you who is fallible know for certain that there is no infallible God who is worth of absolute faith?

    • Skepdude said, on March 9, 2009 at 1:08 PM

      I never claimed to “know for certain that there is no infallible God”. Where are you getting that from?

  4. Rodibidably said, on March 9, 2009 at 1:08 PM

    Russ,
    We can’t know for 100% certainly that some version of god does not exist…

    But we can say that many of the contemporary beliefs of god contradict scientific knowledge
    We can day that many of the beliefs about the god of old contradict scientific knowledge
    We can say that nothing we know of in the universe has a NEED for a god to explain it (at least not yet)
    And we can say there is no evidence to support the hypothesis that any version or variation of does in fact exist…

    If you choose to believe despite the lack of evidence, lack of need, and clear contradictions, then I hope you enjoy your delusions.
    For myself, I’ll follow the best available scientific knowledge.

  5. Russ said, on March 9, 2009 at 2:30 PM

    You said that absolute faith corrupts which implies that there is no one who is worthy of our faith for if He is not worthy of our absolute faith then He is worthy of none of our faith.

    • Skepdude said, on March 9, 2009 at 3:30 PM

      Firstly, Eric Hoffer said that not me.

      Secondly you’re setting up a bit of a false dilemma there “for if He is not worthy of our absolute faith then He is worthy of none of our faith.” Why is that? That is what the religious leaders will want you to believe, because that way you can’t question them without questioning faith itself, and that’s exactly where they want you to be. It is up to you if you drink that Kool Aid unquestionably or if you think if it makes sense.

      It is not true that you must choose between such extremes. You can have faith in someone or something without it being absolute. I have faith in Obama to be a great president, but I don’t have absolute faith on him. In fact, I think he messed up with his upholding of faith (hehe) based initiatives.

      The point is no one is perfect. Actually I would say that if people have absolute faith on you, you have absolute power over them. They are the same thing when you look at it from that point of view.

  6. Russ said, on March 9, 2009 at 4:30 PM

    If you don’t agree with Eric Hoffer why is he your quote of the day?

    I am not talking about having faith in religious leaders because I don’t put absolute faith in any man. I am talking about placing absolute faith in the God who created the heavens and the earth.

    I am aware that I have the choice to place only some faith in God but my point is that any God who is not worthy of all of my faith is not worthy of any of my faith.

    • Skepdude said, on March 9, 2009 at 10:39 PM

      Russ, you seem to have a gift for misinterpreting people’s words. It is the second time in this short exchange that I have to correct you. I did not say I don’t agree with him, but when you attributed his quote to me I made sure to clarify that Eric Hoffer should get credited with saying it not me. Try to comment on what I actually say, not what you wish I was saying.

      If you want to shower absolute faith on your God, be my guest, we live in a free world and you certainly have the right to do that. But I also reserve the right to call you on it. You just have to accept it in return for your freedom to believe.

      I just wonder how is your God different from the thousands that have come and gone before him? In what sense is he more real than Allah? Or is it Allah you are talking about?

      • Rodibidably said, on March 9, 2009 at 11:22 PM

        I don’t think it’s an issue of misinterpretation at all. I think it’s willful and purposfully ignoring anything that differs with his (her?) preconcieved notions…

        Russ obviously came to this blog with an intent to make some “point”, and nothing we can say will disuade him (her?) from that goal.

  7. Rodibidably said, on March 9, 2009 at 4:37 PM

    Russ,
    Which god exactly are you placing your trust in? Is this the god that people were willing to fly planes into building in support of? Is this the god that ordered a man to slaughter his own son? Is this the god that allows pedophiles within an ordganization supposedly dedicated to him molest and rape countless young boys? Is this the god that allows children to die of starvation daily?

    If that god exists (and I’m obviously more than a trad skeptical of that proposition) I don’t believe it has earned my respect, bucjh less my absolute faith.

    As Richard Dawkins puts it:
    “The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”

  8. Russ said, on March 9, 2009 at 5:04 PM

    I am placing my faith in the God that you know noting about.

    • Skepdude said, on March 9, 2009 at 5:45 PM

      1) Why?
      2) Do you know anything about your God?

    • Rodibidably said, on March 9, 2009 at 6:01 PM

      Which god specifically is this?
      Is it the god of the bible?
      Does your god take an active role in the world today, and yet this god sees fit (and I want to emphasize this for you) to continually allow countless children to be raped on a daily basis?

      Is this the god you put your faith in?
      If so, then I sincerly hope that you are never allowed near any children yourself, as your god is a sick perverted sadistic fuckwat.

  9. Russ said, on March 9, 2009 at 5:51 PM

    1) Because He is worthy.
    2) Yes

  10. Russ said, on March 9, 2009 at 6:45 PM

    He is the one that faithfully provides the breath that you use to curse Him.

    • Rodibidably said, on March 9, 2009 at 6:48 PM

      It’s always comforting to see how theists just blissfully ignore the negative aspects of their own delusions…

      If one of you ever snapped out of your ignorance and made a logical comment that was relevant to the conversation I’d probably be in too much shock to actually reply.

  11. Russ said, on March 10, 2009 at 9:21 AM

    I commented here because I disagree with your quote. I believe that God is worthy of absolute faith because He has demonstrated His love in sending His Son to take the penalty for sin of the world – including yours. …He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

    • Skepdude said, on March 10, 2009 at 9:40 AM

      Fine, just replace the word “demonstrated” with “claimed”. He claimed to have done all of these things, you have no real reason to believe that he did, besides the Holy Bible which presumably, he authored.

  12. Russ said, on March 10, 2009 at 10:13 AM

    How do know if I have no real reason to believe besides the Holy Bible?

  13. Russ said, on March 10, 2009 at 11:07 AM

    Jesus said, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.”

    • Skepdude said, on March 10, 2009 at 11:08 AM

      Ok, your point being….?

  14. Russ said, on March 10, 2009 at 12:41 PM

    How do I know for sure that you exist? I believe that you exist but right now the only evidence that I have is what you (presumably) have written. However, there are those to whom you have chosen to reveal yourself personally. Perhaps to your spouse or your friends. You choose those to whom you will reveal yourself but to others you choose to remain distant. The choice is yours.

    God also chooses. He chooses those with whom He will be intimate and He chooses to remain distant and obscure to others. He has the right to choose just as you have the right to choose.

    Your only evidence that God exists is what is written in the Bible just like my only evidence that you exist is what you have written on your blog. However, for those who know you personally there is no doubt that you exist. That is why I quoted Jesus when He said, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.”

    • Skepdude said, on March 10, 2009 at 12:51 PM

      Except that I don’t threaten you with ever lasting fire and punishment if the evidence I’ve put forth for my existence is not satisfactory to you, now do I?

      Shakespeare wrote about King Lear (was that his name?) in his works, does that mean that King Lear existed (maybe he did I don’t know but my point remains) solely because he wrote about him?

      Just because someone is writing something does not guarantee that what they are writing is true. I do not doubt that the bible was written by someone (many people in fact), just that what it says is not true. By your logic you should be facing Mecca 5 times a day and praising Allah, because guess what: He’s got a book too!

  15. Russ said, on March 10, 2009 at 2:20 PM

    I agree that just because someone writes something it does not make it true but if you met King Lear for yourself you would no longer doubt his existence – but the King would have to be willing to reveal Himself to you or you will never get the chance to meet Him – and why would a King want to meet with someone who hurls insults and hatred at the kingdom day and night. The King would never even give that person the time of day.

    If you refuse love, you are only left with hate. If you refuse the love that the King showed you by sending His Son to redeem you, you are only left with wrath. The King is not responsible if you refuse His gift of eternal life. You are invited to the King’s feast but you refuse to attend – or as Jesus put it:

    The kingdom of heaven is like a certain king who arranged a marriage for his son, and sent out his servants to call those who were invited to the wedding; and they were not willing to come. Again, he sent out other servants, saying, ‘Tell those who are invited, “See, I have prepared my dinner; my oxen and fatted cattle are killed, and all things are ready. Come to the wedding.”‘ But they made light of it and went their ways, one to his own farm, another to his business. And the rest seized his servants, treated them spitefully, and killed them. But when the king heard about it, he was furious. And he sent out his armies, destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city. Then he said to his servants, “The wedding is ready, but those who were invited were not worthy. Therefore go into the highways, and as many as you find, invite to the wedding.” So those servants went out into the highways and gathered together all whom they found, both bad and good.

    • Skepdude said, on March 10, 2009 at 2:41 PM

      Wow, I see it is pointless talking to you. Where do you see the hurling of insults and hate? I am asking questions. Is inquiry equal to hate in your mind?

      You still haven’t answered my question. Why aren’t you a Muslim? Why aren’t you praying to Allah instead of Jesus?

  16. Russ said, on March 10, 2009 at 3:08 PM

    No, asking questions is not hate, however, if I had guests in my home and one of the guests began insulting and attacking the other, as the head of the home I would ask the one hurling the insults to cool it for awhile – at least until I was sure that his insults were well founded. If I did not intervene and attempt to stop the attacks and make both visitors welcome, it could be reasoned by the one receiving the insults that you, the owner of the house, agrees with the insults. Rodibidably did just this sort of thing and you said nothing. If I have come to the wrong conclusions concerning your opinions, I apologize.

    Again, I have answered your question concerning Allah but you have failed to understand my point – for which I will also take the blame – due to my poor communication skills. My point is that I do not have absolute faith in any book where I do not know the author personally.

    • Skepdude said, on March 10, 2009 at 3:19 PM

      Which would mean that you can’t trust your bible because you don’t, and you can’t tell me you do, know the author personally beyond what the book tells you. You have never met Jesus just as you have never met Allah or Muhammad, so if you dismiss them you must dismiss Jesus.

      And I haven’t read anything from Rodibidably that would qualify as an insult, unless you count him calling your beliefs “delusions” which is not an insult far as I am concerned. I mean the Bible calls those who do not believe “fools” and all sorts of things. We respect free speech in this blog, we only draw the line at hate speech. You can’t pull the “offense” card willy nilly, you know.

  17. Russ said, on March 10, 2009 at 3:45 PM

    Again, you have no way to know if I have met Jesus personally. God can reveal Himself to whom He chooses just as you reveal yourself to whom you choose as I have explained at length.

    You could claim to know the president of the USA and I would have no way to know if you are speaking the truth because I do not know him.

    As Rodibidably said, “We can’t know for 100% certainly that some version of god does not exist…” – and, if He does exist, He is not obligated to reveal Himself to anyone, however, He could and does choose to reveal Himself to some as He promised in His word, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.” Do you love Him? Then He has revealed Himself to you. Do you hate Him without a cause? Then you cannot know Him.

    • Skepdude said, on March 10, 2009 at 3:47 PM

      Let’s stop the word play: Have you actually seen God or Jesus with your own eyes and heard him with your own ears? If no, case closed. If yes, case closed, it’s useless for us to continue this conversation.

  18. Russ said, on March 10, 2009 at 4:18 PM

    You are intimate with those whom you choose to reveal yourself and others do not know you at all – yet when the God of the heavens graciously extends an invitation to know Him, you are not interested. Know this, that kingdom of God came near to you today.

    • Skepdude said, on March 10, 2009 at 8:12 PM

      I guess it was my lucky day!

  19. Russ said, on March 11, 2009 at 8:58 AM

    I enjoyed the conversation. Thanks for your time and thoughts.

    Russ

    • Skepdude said, on March 11, 2009 at 9:52 AM

      Anytime, that is what we’re here for.


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